AL PORCINO
(trumpet)
During the period of the late ’40s and early ’50s I was sort of
going in cycles. Within ten years I worked with Stan Kenton, Woody Herman
and Gene Krupa three times each; I just seemed to be circulating around
the three bands.
I didn’t stay too long with Krupa the first time; I had always
wanted to work with Woody Herman’s First Herd, as they called it. That great
band with Sonny Berman, and with Conrad Gozzo playing the lead. Even though
I’d only been with Krupa a few months in the Fall of ‘46, when I did get
a call to join Woody, I didn’t want to pass it up. It’s a good thing I did
go with him then, because, as it turned out, Woody disbanded in December
of that year, and that was the end of that first band of his. He didn’t
reorganise until the September of ‘47 when he formed the Four Brothers band.
When I think back on it, it’s really something, the way Fate works.
When I joined Kenton in September ‘47, little did I know that Woody was
going to come up with such a sensational band. I probably could have gone
with Woody at the time, but the last band I had worked with was Kenton,
just before he disbanded in the Spring of ‘47.
As it turned out, I did get to work with the Four Brothers band, but
it was a later vintage. I didn’t rejoin Woody until 1949, when the Brothers
were Gene Ammons, Jimmy Giuffre, Buddy Savitt with Serge Chaloff the only
remaining one of the original four. But that was quite a band we had,
too. We recorded “More Moon” by Shorty Rogers as a single on Capitol.
And we did a wonderful arrangement that Johnny Mandel wrote, called “Not
Really The Blues”, on which I got to play lead. I was quite proud of that.
BILL BYRNE (trumpet)
I joined Woody’s band in August 1965; he needed three trumpet
players in about two days. Bill Chase was doing the hiring at that time,
and he hired me from New York City. Before that I’d been with a Naval Academy
band for five years; then I was in New York playing with Larry Elgart on
weekends. When I started with Woody, I thought the book was, as they say,
straight ahead. The way you see the figures, that’s the way it’s going to
be played; it’s very natural. There aren’t too many left–handed figures
on anything in it. You just sit in the band, sight–read the book and if
there’s something they’ve changed, they’ll tell you. Things are pretty relaxed.
As a leader, Woody lets the guys in the band take the reins a
lot. He lets their personalities enter into it like Duke’s band. Consequently,
the band changes from year to year, because Woody will always let the musicians
do what they can do. Especially if they’re exceptionally talented; he gives
them a chance.
Woody’s approach is to leave it relaxed as long as something is
happening—that’s the best way to put it. If nothing is happening musically,
then he can crack the whip. But usually we have personnel that have very
good talents, and they crack their own whip, in a way. If necessary, though.
Woody steps in and uses his experience and knowledge gained through the
years to influence us. In rehearsal, he lets the arranger or composer take
the whole thing through. He’ll sit there and listen to it, and if he has
a suggestion he’ll make it. It’s not an ultimatum; they’ll confer on it
together.
As well as playing trumpet with the band, my other function is
still that of road manager. I do all the hiring and selecting of everyone
with the help of the guys in the band, too. Normally, I ask them for their
opinions on musicians; if they don’t have anybody in mind, then it’s up
to me to start calling New York, Boston, Los Angeles, and find out who’s
available. But if they’re the players they want, that’s ten times better.
Sometimes, though, people recommend friends of theirs who aren’t as good;
so then you have to weed that out. Ninety per cent of the time, the guys
who are recommended are very good.
On Woody’s band, I would say we get rid of no more than three
people a year who don’t work out.
FRANK TIBERI (tenor)
My work with this band has brought me the most appreciation I’ve
had in my musical life therefore I remain here. And I do get a chance to
play to some extent, unlike many other jobs I might be commissioned to do.
Big bands are still a creative and enjoyable thing.
The enjoyment has a lot to do with Woody himself, in one certain
respect. He is very receptive to the ideas of younger musicians, and they
contribute their arrangements and charts. It’s not a thing where we’re subject
only to playing the old material he’s famous for. We do them, but Woody
is very versatile in selecting tunes. So these present-day charts make it
that much more tolerable, throughout the period of years attached to one
particular group.
If one is not sustained by things of this kind, staleness can
set in, which invariably results in leaving the band and going on to a new
situation. When the band’s personnel changes, the people that have been
there do adapt to the contributions of the new players. Things are maintained;
as one leaves, maybe another can pick it up and move from second to first,
or whatever. And there are always musicians available, who are ready to
take the road job, probably after playing with a lot of groups in local
areas. That’s the way it just resolves right on through.
Musicians will stay no less than eight months, up to a year-and-a-half
on the band that goes for about fifty per cent of the band, I’d say. I played
on the last four or five albums by the band; I liked a couple of things
I did. I was involved in the origin of the last one, “Giant Steps”. What
happened was: we gave a seminar, with a jam session, and I conducted an
“Evolution Of Jazz”. One of the high spots of this was my explanation of
“Giant Steps”, covering the entire period in which ‘Trane introduced it
that is, the rapid changing of tonalities.
Woody was in the audience, and it inspired him to ask for a chart
on it. Of course, I had one; so Bill Stapleton and I had a ball collaborating
on arranging it for the band. Which led to Woody presenting it as the title
tune of a whole album. Really good. These are the things I was speaking
about, that continually make it interesting for one to remain for a long
space of time. On the next album, there’ll be a couple more of ‘Trane’s
tunes “Naima” and “Lazy Bird”.
You know, they’re things which he played in the ‘sixties, and
right now commercially it seems to be of great value; because it has been
around a long while, a lot of people have become attached to that sort of
sound. So this is really nice, and there’s no telling what the album after
that will be probably free jazz!
Woody is really adaptable, and he certainly manages to put over
newer music, along with the unforgettable “Caldonia”. Actually, that’s what
he’s been doing throughout the entire years. Which is fine; people have
been accepting him.
AL COHN (tenor)
Yes, I would say playing with Woody Herman was a
kind of a foundation for all that followed. That period with the ‘Four
Brothers’ band was the first time I ever got my name out in front of the
public really not that I had billing with the band, but we got heard.
I met Zoot and Stan Getz there, of course.
It was a very good band, although we didn’t sense
anything particularly important about it at the time. We were working
so hard, we didn’t have time to reflect. It was a travelling, one-nighter
band; in the best of circumstances you get a little tired and bored under
those conditions. The band was always charged up on the bandstand it was
after the gig was over that there was kind of a let-down.
You know, you spend eight to twelve hours a day travelling,
and four hours on the job. Of course, I’m out again now the road is not
for everybody, but I enjoy it. I wouldn’t enjoy sitting in a bus ten hours
a day any more. However, we don’t have that sort of thing, luckily.
Now, Woody knows what he wants, in terms of a big
band sound of today, even if he can’t do it himself. I mean, he can’t
put it on paper, and he can’t play that way himself, but he can take the
raw materials that are given to him, and mould something out of it that’s
his. Not many have that ability.
Woody has a really excellent
band now. I don’t think it’s only the Four Brothers sound that identifies
Woody. Woody himself has a lot to do with identifying the Herman band.
His playing always you know it’s Woody, whether you like it or not. What
he does, he does very well.
As a matter of fact, I heard him on a record he did
on clarinet with just a rhythm section. And it’s pretty nice—it’s the
best I’ve ever heard Woody play that thing. He always plays pretty alto.
I like Woody.
TERRY GIBBS (vibes)
After a long tour with Buddy Rich, I had a horrible five-day drive across
the country from San Francisco to New York City, and I got home about
three in the afternoon I swore I’d never go on the road ever again in
my life. At five o’clock the same day, I got a call from Woody Herman’s
band, asking me to join him in Chicago that day. I left for Chicago at
eight o’clock that night.
Well, that was the band with Stan Getz, Zoot Sims, AI Cohn and everybody
I didn’t believe that they would call me. That was one of the greatest
experiences I’ve ever had that personnel was something else. And I really
learned a lot from Woody I love and admire him. Woody put up with a lot
of things that I don’t think many bandleaders would put up with. But musically,
when that band got onstage, it was phenomenal a red-hot bebop band. Also,
he lost so much money, because the band was so good that we hardly ever
did one nighters.
He put us in the Royal Roost for a
month; we played a club in California for a month, then Chicago for a
month. You don’t make any money in clubs; it’s one-nighters where you
make it. But he wanted the people to hear that band. It was one great
soloist following another it got better and better. We used to play “Four
Brothers” every night; it didn’t make any sense how guys could play that
good at that age. You know they were all young.
“Early Autumn” was a big thing for me; I think it actually won me my
first Down Beat award. I had eight bars; Stan Getz had the big solo on
it. Stan and myself were both disappointed, in a way, when they put out
that take, compared to another one we thought we’d played better on. But
Woody knew what a band should sound like; he didn’t go by just solos he
just went by the full performance of the whole band. Which I learned later
on; when I had a band of my own, I really incorporated that into my thinking.
Last October, Woody came in to see
me when I worked New York City. I introduced him on the microphone, and
I thought that what I said was being kind of cute and clever but actually
it was the truth. I said: “At one time, I used to look on Woody as my
father but now I’m too old.” It’s true: when you’re twenty–two or twenty–three
and somebody’s twelve or fourteen years older than you, that’s a lot.
Later on in life, that narrows right down. Specially with Woody he stays
on the road, like a little kid; he’s travelling constantly.
He’s an amazing man. Through the years, I’ve heard his band and seen
it a few times, and I think, of all the bandleaders, Woody always has
one over the other guys he picks the best soloists. His soloists are always
a little better. He’s had people like Sal Nistico a giant player. He manages
to find some young kids who can really play well not just in the section,
although that’s very important; Woody has a great ensemble band also.
I love Woody as a person; I always
will. Indirectly, without even realising it, I may have patterned my big
band after his, in some respects.
NAT PIERCE (piano)
The band I had in Boston, with the double-time trumpet figures and everything,
was kinda patterned after Woody’s band at the time. We made one record
date, to which a lot of the guys from Woody’s band showed up Lou Levy,
Earl Swope, Zoot, Serge and so on. They all came around to help us on
our way. It was nice.
It was a very friendly situation up
there in Boston at that time. So my direction was towards the Herman noise.
It was a little cruder then, though. Some of the voicings were strange,
and then we wrote too many notes. We did things that were completely uncomfortable
to play. In fact, we couldn’t even play ‘em! I don’t think this band or
any other could play some of the things we played.
My joining Woody’s band came about
because one of the trumpet players that was with my band had gone with
Woody, and somehow he convinced him that he should call me up when Dave
McKenna went into the army for the Korean war. That was in 1951.
Of course, Ralph Burns was the head
man at that point. He was writing all kinds of things pop tunes, originals,
novelties. They had everything going on. He had just left MGM when I joined.
Wonderful people like Doug Mettome and Don Fagerquist on trumpets, Urbie
Green on trombone, Sonny Igoe on drums were still with the band.
Then Chubby Jackson reappeared on
the scene with his bass. This was, I guess, around September or October
of 1951. By the next Spring we were making records for Woody’s own label,
Mars. On the first session we made “Terrisita”, “Moten Stomp”, “Stompin’
At The Savoy” and “Jump In The Line”. Those were the first records I ever
made with a so-called big time band. After that I started writing for
the band. “Buck Dance” I wrote the beginning and the last chorus and Ralph
Burns wrote the middle part all the little four-bar send-offs for the
soloists.
Woody wanted to have a thing where we brought in
all kinds of different dances: “The Sailor’s Hompipe”, “Turkey In The
Straw” and so on. We still play “Buck Dance” we do it as a cha-cha now,
during dance engagements.
We may build another monster in that vein, but we
never get around to it with so many other things to do.
Woody has a thing going against intros. A long time
ago he made a record of “Let It Snow, Let It Snow” with the original Herd
Bill Harris and all those people. Neal Hefti wrote this monster intro
I think it was twenty-four bars long. Quotes from Stravinsky it was great.
Woody loved it. But it took twenty-four bars to get into the song. And
Vaughn Monroe came out like, it went one, two, three, four and in. It
became a national hit. So Woody said: “It must be the fault of the intro”.
So even to this day, it’s very short intros—we go right in.
CHUBBY JACKSON
I was very fortunate because I’d always been surrounded
by so many great players. At many times, I automatically played way over
my head, way beyond what I ever thought I could play, because of people
like Bill Harris, all the men in Woody’s band.
Charlie Barnet really started it for me, and then
I joined Woody, and, of course, the rest of that is history. Woody’s band
did score heavily; there’s no doubt that I went along for the ride, and
enjoyed every moment of it. And to this day I’m tremendously in the corner
of Woody Herman he’s like my daddy. I learned a lot from him not only
musically, but many different ways.
Seemingly, when I would be in any kind of trouble
never all that serious, of course he’d pretty well get together and straighten
me out. I’d say he was a humanitarian; plus the fact that he’s enormously
dedicated to his music. Really, I put him in the same category as a Duke
Ellington, a Count Basie, a Lionel Hampton, and all these bands that had
their own sounds. I mean, I know I’m leaving out quite a few bands, but
you know the bands I mean, that were dedicated Woody is one of ‘em, there’s
no doubt.
Stan Kenton was a dedicated man. They’ve all done
their little bit for music; they’ve all contributed, in their own feelings
and styles. Yes, you could say that my bass sound was a key factor in
Woody’s formula one that has carried on, I love to hear people say that
to me.(bass) I believe that most of the enthusiasm and the fire that I
had going was given to me by Davey Tough. Because we used to sit in the
bus and discuss rhythms and music and little excursions in rhythm, which
were the early motivation of what they now call the free, avant garde
music, you know.
We would discuss all those little possibilities.
That Fortieth Anniversary Concert at Carnegie Hall was a very exciting
thing it really was. The old men came back and burned and cooked and romped
and stomped—it was really unbelievable. Well, you’ve probably heard the
record it was for real.
You know, they have baseball in the States, and every
year they have the all-star old-timers’ game; they would cheer a great
like Willie Mays, for example, who would get up and just maybe strike
out or pop out. But this all-star, old-time thing—we were there for real.
We were playing these tunes, cooking like mad, and we hadn’t seen each
other on the bandstand, anyway for twenty-five years.
It fell into place immediately; which brings out
a belief of truth that’s where we were, and when we got back together,
there was not the slightest indication of a struggle. Which usually there
can be, because this one is a little older, and can’t quite run the hundred-yards
dash like they used to. But with certain musicians I know, that are older
they can run that dash.
DON LAMOND (drums)
Whatever fame I’ve been able to acquire throughout my career,
I’d say I became more well-known through my work with Woody Herman than
any other band.
Yes, I replaced Dave Tough. I was in Washington, D.C. (where
I was raised) at the time. They were down South, in Alabama - some place
like that—and Dave took sick. I knew the late Sonny Berman, who was in
the trumpet section; we’d been together on a couple of little bands here
and there. He recommended me to Woody. So I joined the band and stayed
on.
Mainly I wanted to just keep time and swing the band. No two
people play alike; I certainly didn’t try to copy Dave. I figured I’d
just keep the band swinging to the best of my ability, and I didn’t have
him in mind. Except a couple of things—Woody used to like those fast little
bass drum beats when he cut off the band at the end of a tune.
Well, I tried that a couple of times, but it just wasn’t in
my bag. You know, I didn’t feel right with it. Actually, I played with
two Herman bands - the one that recorded “Caldonia”, “Apple Honey” and
all that, the one that Dave was in; then I was in the “Four Brothers”
band - “Early Autumn”, “Keen And Peachy” and so on. They were both very
enjoyable.
If you’re thinking style-wise, I guess they were different
from one another. The first band had a tremendous amount of fire; maybe
the second band was a little bit more on the relaxed side. It’s very hard
to compare those styles.
Of course, Bill Harris was a great artist in that band, and
Flip Phillips, Sonny Berman. A wonderful brass section - Neal Hefti was
one of the trumpet players; Conrad Gozzo was a powerhouse. It was really
an education.
When Woody broke that band up, I went to California, because
I was such friends with Jimmie Rowles, the piano player. He had talked
me into it. I stayed out there until Woody reorganised, and the second
band came into being, with Zoot and Al, and all the guys.
The sound of the tenor lead, as on “Four Brothers”, might
have thrown Woody a little when he heard it; he wasn’t used to it. Jimmy
Giuffre wrote that arrangement.
That started, you know, in a little band led by a trumpet
player named Tommy De Carlo. They were local guys who worked in the Mexican
section of Los Angeles; I think he had Herbie Steward, Stan Getz, Zoot
Sims and Jimmy Giuffre. They couldn’t find an alto player they liked;
so Stan Getz transposed the lead part and played it on tenor. Jimmy Giuffre
got the idea from that and, when Woody asked him to do a couple of arrangements,
he wrote in the tenor lead. Which they’ve had from then on.
Without a doubt, those years I spent with Woody were very
happy ones. And as a person, Woody’s a doll. A really wonderful guy.
It’s funny, I played a festival with George Wein down in Atlanta
recently; Woody was there and we played together. Do you know, that guy
hasn’t changed since I was with him. He seems to be eternally young. He
still has that very youthful look to me; he hasn’t got old-looking at
all. There’s always that enthusiasm for what he’s doing.
One thing I always admired Woody for—he would never have a
bad band for commercial reasons. At all times, he tries to have a good
band—and he usually manages to have one. He makes it a point to get nice
arrangements that he and the guys like.
Woody was always very good to me. He helped me along every
step; it was never like a boss–employee relationship. In the band he gave
me a completely free hand. He used to say: “Put in whatever you want to
put in.” Who wouldn’t enjoy that?
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